Rebuttal to Answer in Genesis's article “Did a meteor wipe out the dinosaurs?”

Rebuttal to Answer in Genesis's article “Did a meteor wipe out the dinosaurs?”
By Matthew Varga

In this article I shall refute AiG's article “Did a meteor wipe out the dinosaurs?” I shall provide quotes, and then refute the quotes.

AiG states:

“The extinction of the dinosaurs is one of the greatest mysteries of secular science. It would not be if people believed the true eye-witness account of Earth’s history recorded in the Bible. This reveals that:
Land animals (this includes dinosaurs) and man were created on Day 6 about 6,000 years ago—so dinosaurs lived at the same time as people.”
I state:

The extinction of the dinosaurs is not just one of the greatest mysteries of so called 'secular' science, it is one of the greatest mysteries of all science. The 'fact' that the Bible is a 'true eye-witness account' of Earth's recorded history is based upon flawed ideologies. To proceed in true science, one must operate in true science, meaning that any reference to scriptures of any religion must be left out. Unfortunately, there is no credible scientific evidence that dinosaurs and Homo sapiens sapiens lived at the same time, or even near the same time. Every time 'evidence' of this cohabitation has been presented, it has crashed in flames as pseudoscience brought upon by shoddy collection skills and false preconditions.1

AiG states:

“Adam sinned and brought death, disease and bloodshed into the world. Before then, no dinosaur could have died.”

I state:

This cannot be true at its very core. Sure, the Scripture states that death entered the world with Adam and Eve's original sin. But the real problem is that the Old Testament god proclaimed:

“Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.”(Gen. 1:29, NIV)2

The fundamental problem with this is that unbeknownst to the author(s) of Genesis, plants are life too. Plants are living creatures, and eating them is technically death. So, either god knew this and decided to blow this off as unimportant, or Genesis is not really the word of god. And, if it comes about that Creationist organizations decide to disown the idea of a purely vegetarian society pre-original sin, then what did the creatures of the Earth eat? Ambrosia?

AiG states:

“A global Flood occurred about 1,656 years later, wiping out all land animals that breathe though nostrils (that weren’t on the Ark). Thus billions of animals were buried quickly and formed fossils. This is when most dinosaur fossils formed.”

I state:

This brings up several points. First of all, what about marine animals that breathe through nostrils, such as whales and dolphins? Secondly, did Noah take the fish fauna of the period on to the ark? If not, then the entirety of the fish 'kind', as creationists would say, would have been wiped out. This is because fish have very specific types of water that they live in. Some need salt water, some need fresh water, and some need a brackish water. Now, if the rain was fresh water, then the salt water fish and the brackish water fish would have died out. If the rain was salt water, then the fresh water fish and the brackish water fish would have died out. If the rain was a mix of these two types of water, then both the salt water fish and fresh water fish would have died out. This is not to mention the entire spectrum of waters that fish live in, just the extremes. This also leaves out the pH spectrum, the light spectrum, temperature, different chemicals, and the host of other variables.3,4 Third, if 'billions of animals' were fossilized, why don't we see billions of fossils? Fossilized animal remains are extremely rare. Fourth, most fossilization is a long drawn out process. Sure, permineralization is one process that takes less time than other forms of fossilization5, but permineralization is usually when 'soft parts' are fossilized.

AiG states:

“Noah took two of every kind of land animal (seven of the ‘clean’ ones) on board an ocean-liner–sized Ark — this included dinosaurs. For more information, see How did all the animals fit on Noah’s Ark? “

I state:

One question that creationist cannot answer is, what is the definition of a kind? Every time this question has been brought up, the definition is always similar to a scientific genus or species.6 For example, Ken Ham speaks of the “dog-kind”.7 This is where a major problem arises. According to Nomenclator Zoologicus Online, there are approximately 340,000 discovered genera in the world.8 The estimate as to the number of species ranges from 2 to 100 million.9 Now this is where a major problem of space comes into play. There is no possible way the ark could have held 680,000 to 200 million animals plus food for those animals. It isn't just a problem of space, it is also a problem with weight! The largest ocean liner on Earth, the QM2 Southampton, holds 1,300 crew members, 2,800 passengers, and food enough to feed them for the extent of the cruise.10 Now look at the ark. It would have had to hold 640,000 to 200 million animals, food enough to feed them for a year, as well as Noah and his family and their food. It is statistically impossible!

AiG states:

“After the Flood, the descendants of those dinosaurs existed for a while with humans, and there seem to be eye-witness accounts of them, e.g. in Job 40:15 ff. and in the many dragon legends found around the world.”

I state:

I am not even going to get into the statistics of repopulating the human side of Earth. For that I refer you to Talk Origins. Let's instead look at the dinosaur part of this statement. If dinosaurs coexisted with Homo sapiens sapiens then we should be able to find skeletons of both in the same strata, correct? Unfortunately for AiG, we haven't found any dinosaur skeletons in recent strata, nor have we found any Homo sapiens sapiens, or any other hominid for that matter, in 65 MY old strata. That on face value destroys AiG's argument. Additionally, they try to say that myth and folk tales of 'dragons' lend support to the idea that Homo sapiens sapiens and dinosaurs coexisted.11 The traditional concept of a dragon in mythology is a flying, fire-breathing reptile that bears nearly no resemblance to actual dinosaurs. There was no recorded dinosaur species that had a reptilian body, yet flew. And there was no species that breathed fire. In fact, no species in the history of Earth had that capability. Also, there are no recorded 'eye-witness' cases of theropod, sauropod, or any of the other types of dinosaurs.

AiG states:

“Eventually they all died out, except for possible rare sightings in uninhabited areas which have not been properly verified. The causes were probably no more dramatic than those that cause extinctions of other species, e.g. man’s hunting, change of climate, loss of food source, fragmentation of habitat.”

I state:

This brings up the same question above; if dinosaurs coexisted with Homo sapiens sapiens and died out during our reign, why does the fossil record of dinosaurs end at roughly 65 MYA? Shouldn't we find fossilized dinosaur remains in recent strata if they lived during the times of Homo sapiens sapiens, and if fossilization is a quick process? Again, unfortunately for AiG and ICR (Institute for Creation Research), we haven't and most likely will never find those fossils. Also, on the issue of humans hunting dinosaurs to extinction, this is the same organization that denies that it is possible that Homo sapiens sapiens hunted Homo sapiens neanderthalensis to extinction, as well as other organizations.12 If it was so hard to hunt down a species, what makes it easier to hunt down 527-1844 genera of dinosaurs?13

AiG states:

“Those who disbelieve the Bible have invented many different explanations for the demise of the dinosaurs:
Mammals eating dinosaur eggs.
New narcotic plants evolved.
Global cooling/global warming.
Loss of plants causing herbivores to starve, which in turn caused the carnivores to starve.
Lowering of oxygen partial pressure in the atmosphere.”
I state:

Oddly enough, AiG presents different lists of 'explanations' of the extinction of the dinosaurs for each article it does.14,15,16 Unfortunately, it leaves out three crucial theories. First, it leaves out the asteroid/meteor impact theory, although it does talk about it later in the article. Second, it leaves out the volcanic eruption theory. Finally, it leaves out the combined theory of a volcanic eruption brought upon by an asteroid/meteor impact. Additionally, no scientist claims that mammals ate the dinosaur's young to death, leading to extinction, nor does any claim that narcotic plants claimed the dinosaur's reign. They provide no cites for these two whatsoever.

AiG states:

“The current ‘glamour’ theory was proposed by the geologist Walter Alvarez in about 1980, that a meteor strike 66.4 million years ago caused dramatic climatic changes much like ‘nuclear winter’. This caused the extinction of the dinosaurs and many other species. His evidence was his discovery of an allegedly world-wide layer of clay with a high iridium content. His father Luis, who won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1968 for work on subatomic particles, helped him publicize the theory. It is now accepted as ‘proven fact’ in many circles, and popularized in ‘documentaries’ such as Walking with Dinosaurs. “

I state:

What they mean by 'glamour theory' is beyond me. Perhaps they mean the theory most widely accepted in the scientific community, which, by the way, AiG is not a member of. They insinuate that the only evidence for the meteor/asteroid impact is the iridium clay layer. Unfortunately for AiG, there is evidence galore for this theory. Among the most convincing is the impact crater on/near the Yucatan Peninsula, called Chicxulub Crater. (For a picture visit this site: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Chicxulub_radar_topography.jpg/300px-Chicxulub_radar_topography.jpg). This crater was dated to 65 MYA.17

AiG states:

“The secular book The Great Dinosaur Extinction Controversy exposes the way that the meteor explanation for the dinosaur extinction has become a new dogma that has way outstripped the evidence (see review by Carl Wieland in CENTJ 12(2):154–158, 1998). Some of the reasons are:
The extinction was not that sudden (using evolutionary/long age interpretations of the geological record). But the spread in the geological record makes sense if much of the sedimentary deposits were formed in Noah’s Flood.”
I state:

I don't understand AiG's need to delineate between secular and theistic books. As if being 'secular' automatically makes them dismiss it. But on to their argument. I severely doubt that the book concluded that the geological record made sense if Noah's Flood happened. That's probably just something stuck in there by AiG. But, the geologic record would make no sense if Noah's Flood happened. Why then, do no dinosaurs show up in the Silurian strata? Why do no rabbits show up in Pre-Cambrian strata? If most or all of the sedimentary rocks were laid down by Noah's Flood, then we should see that type of mixing of fossils throughout the strata. Additionally, the meteor/asteroid impact would have not killed all dinosaurs with the initial impact. Most likely, it was a long drawn out mass dying, caused by vegetation dying, leaving no food for herbivores, leading to the demise of carnivores. Additionally, the fossil record points to a mass dying, caused by radation.18

AiG states:

“Light-sensitive species survived.”

I state:

AiG doesn't cite this claim, nor do they define “light-sensitive”. Technically, everything can be light sensitive, since every organism has a preferred light spectrum. With no further definition as to what their argument is, I cannot argue it.

AiG states:

“Extinctions don’t correlate with crater dates.”

I state:

This argument is not very clear either. If it means that all extinctions do not correlate with crater dates, that is correct. For example, the Permian extinction was most likely caused by a change in the ocean's climate, glaciation, the formation of Pangaea, or a volcanic eruption not an impact.19 If it means that the Cretaceous-Tertiary Extinction does not line up with crater dates, that is incorrect. As I stated before, the Chicxulub Crater is dated to 65 MYA.

AiG states:

“Modern volcanic eruptions don’t cause global extinction patterns, even if they cause a temporary temperature drop.”

I state:

This is true, yet we have not seen a meteor/asteroid impact coupled with a volcanic eruption in modern history. Volcanic ash, together with the dust and debris ejected from the meteor/asteroid impact surely would have blocked out the sun on a global scale.

“Computer models suggest that if such an asteroid collided with Earth, it would pass through the atmosphere and ocean almost as if they were not there and blast a crater in the crust about 100 km across. The iridium and the smallest pieces of debris would be spread worldwide by the impact blast as the asteroid vaporized into a fireball.”20

Additionally, as the GSA article I cited above states:

“For several hours following the Chicxulub impact, the entire Earth was bathed with intense infrared radiation from ballistically reentering ejecta. The global heat pulse would have killed unsheltered organisms directly and ignited fires at places where adequate fuel was available.”21

So, it was not just the ejected ash, it was also the incredible amount of radiation.

AiG states:

“The iridium enrichment, supposedly a key proof of meteor impact, is not nearly as clearly defined as claimed.”

I state:

This argument, like the others, is not clear either. Does it mean that the iridium layer is not geologically defined, or physically defined. Geologically, the iridium layer is quite well defined. Around the entire world, there is a clay iridium layer over top a layer of spherules, balls of vaporized rock. These two anamolies can only be produced by a meteor/asteroid impact.22 Physically, the iridium layer is very well defined as well. One only need look at a photograph. (For a photograph, visit this site: http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSci102/NatSci102/images/ktboundary.jpg)

AiG states:

“Drill cores of the apparent ‘smoking gun’ crater on the Yucatán peninsula in south-east Mexico do not support the idea that it is an impact crater.”

I state:

Again, no cite. According to a project done by University of Arizona in February 2002:

“This is the rock core that contains the contact between the sedimentary rocks that bury the crater and the top of the rocks in the Chicxulub impact crater. The rocks that bury the crater are the light-colored (approximately white) rocks in the top left portion of the image. The first of the impact breccias recovered in the crater are the green rocks in the top right and bottom half of the image. This image was taken at the core processing laboratory at the University of Yucatan in Merida, where the rock core is transported from the Yaxcopoil-1 drilling site each day. Photograph by David A. Kring, NASA/UA Space Imagery Center.”(Here is a link to the picture cited: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/SIC/news/IMAGE11.JPG)23

So, the rock layers are in complete compliance with an impact crater.

AiG states:

“It seems that some scientists didn’t speak out against the idea for fear of undermining the ‘nuclear winter’ idea, and being grouped with ‘nuclear warmongers’.”

I state:

This is not an argument against the impact crater theory in any way, shape, or form. The whole idea of 'nuclear winter' in relation to this theory is but an analogy. The fact that some scientists didn't argue against that wording doesn't undermine the theory at all.

AiG states:

“The overview article by meteorologist Mike Oard, ‘The extinction of the Dinosaurs’ (CENTJ 11(2):137–154, 1997; download PDF file) explains many features of dinosaur fossils that are consistent with a flood, and dinosaur tracks consistent with fleeing from encroaching flood waters. Oard points out that iridium enrichment can be caused by massive volcanism, as many evolutionists agree. This would certainly have been a feature of the Flood year, associated with the breaking up of the ‘fountains of the great deep’ (Genesis 7:11).”

I state:

Dinosaur fossils are not consistent with Flood geology whatsoever. For example, as stated above, if the Noachian Flood happened, we should see a mixing of fossils throughout the strata. But we don't. Next, to say that dinosaur footprints are consistent with dinosaurs fleeing from the Flood is plain ignorant. Sure, most of the discovered tracks go in a straight line, but the Flood wouldn't have. The Flood was propagated by rain, meaning that the water would have come down, not from the side. Additionally, Figure 36.2 on page 521 of The Complete Dinosaur, edited by Farlow and Brett-Surman, shows many tracks of many species overlapping, not consistent with fleeing a flood at all. Finally, most tracks have been deemed migratory paths.24

AiG states:

“However, Oard agrees that the largest iridium anomalies were caused by meteorites striking during the Flood:
‘Iridium-rich clay falling from the atmosphere would accumulate only during temporary lulls in the Flood.’”
I state:

While it is good that Oard agrees that iridium layers are only caused by meteors and asteroids, he misses the main point. First of all, this iridium layer lines up with the Chicxulub impact crater. Secondly, it is in 65 MY old strata, not consistent with the Flood at all.

AiG states:

“This explains the fact that so-called spikes are really composed of multiple spikes or are spread over a wider layer of sediment. John Woodmorappe has pointed out:
‘there are now over 30 iridium “horizons” in the Phanerozoic record. These can be explained by a slowdown in sedimentation rate as iridium rained from the sky (whether from a terrestrial, or an extraterrestrial source). They pose no problem for the Flood at all.’
That is, the iridium layers mark lulls in the sedimentation rate during the Flood, the iridium ‘rain’ itself being more-or-less continuous during the Flood.”
I state:

This is completely consistent with non-Noachian Flood history. Meteors hit the Earth all the time, and major meteors hit the Earth quite often.25

AiG states:

“Oard also pointed out that the K/T boundary supposedly marking the end of the dinosaur age is most likely not synchronous around the world, and is not defined coherently. Very few dinosaur fossils are actually found near this boundary. Sometimes the argument becomes very circular. For example, the end of the dinosaur era is supposed to be clearly marked in the geological column by the K/T boundary, but in many localities the K/T boundary is defined by the highest dinosaur fossil. Or else the Alvarez theory is supported by the iridium spike in the K/T boundary, but in some localities the K/T boundary is defined by the iridium spike.”

I state:

Again, no cite as to the point that the iridium layer is not synchronous around the world. Philip Bigelow has compiled several cites around the world which show the iridium layer, and their properties.26 Next, he doesn't define 'near'. This could mean around, above, below, it's really quite vague. But anyway, the fossil record is really quite incomplete. We have but a small slice of the fauna in each epoch because of this incomplete fossil record. If fossilization was as easy as AiG purportes, there should be more fossils than there are. It would make sense that the K/T boundary is defined by the highest found fossil in areas in which the iridium layer is not found, because the K/T boundary is where dinosaurs went extinct.

AiG states:

“The Bible provides the only coherent framework within which we can properly interpret history, including that of the dinosaurs. Other theories are doomed to failure, even the glamorous ‘deep impact’ theory, because all circumstantial evidence counts for nothing if it ignores the only eye-witness account we have of Creation and the Flood — the Bible.”

I state, and conclude:

It's really quite hard to understand where they get these conclusions from their arguments. For example, is the Bible the only coherent framework for interpreting the Holocaust? Of course not! Not only is it not a coherent framework for the Holocaust, it isn't a coherent framework for the rest of history. It rambles, talks in parables and metaphors, and isn't complete in the least part. Science is the only way we can have a coherent history of our natural world. And again, the eye-witness account argument is extremely circular. It is an eye-witness account because it says so.

-Matthew Varga

Footnotes

1. For a complete destruction of creationist's 'evidences' see The Tower of Babel by Robert T. Pennock.
2. Genesis 1:29, NIV translation. For more translations, go to www.biblegateway.com.
3. http://www.fishforever.co.uk/waterchemistry.html
4. http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/water/pH.htm
5. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/paleo/fossils/permin.html
6. http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/cms_content?page=736863&sp=1016&event=1016RNF
7. http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp [I shall also refute this article]
8. http://uio.mbl.edu/NomenclatorZoologicus/background.html
9. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/FelixNisimov.shtml
10. http://www.nqsouthern.com/digitalpublication/digitalpublications/index.cfm?dpid=89§ion_id=550
11. http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i3/dragons.asp
12. http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/0413dating_fraud.asp
13. Fountain, Henry. "Many more dinosaurs still to be found." New York Times: 12 Sept. 2006.
14. http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v11/i2/dinosaur.asp
15. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/Area/AnswersBook/dinosaurs19.asp
16. http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp
17. http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=8
18. http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1130%2FB25402.1
19. http://park.org/Canada/Museum/extinction/permcause.html
20. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/education/events/cowen1b.html
21. http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1130%2FB25402.1
22. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dino_prog_summary.shtml
23. http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/SIC/news/chicxulub1.html
24. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/ovrdino.html
25. For a complete database of recorded impacts, visit: http://www.unb.ca/passc/ImpactDatabase/index.html
26. http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:ArJe1xomF1cJ:www.scn.org/~bh162/iridium.html+iridium+layer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a